Transcript
WEBVTT
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Kind of like a, like, like a Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer situation, that elf who wants to be a dentist.
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Uh, this is the orc who wants to be a magician.
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One end of the spectrum is the min maxer, and at the other end of the spectrum, I don't know that there's a name for it.
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The min minner?
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Here I thought my funny little orc magician would just be like, a cool feel good episode, and here I am talking about religious trauma and high school theater.
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It's D& D Cocomelon.
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It's just like, I can make these bright lights.
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Welcome to Characters Without Stories, a TTRPG podcast about the roads not yet traveled.
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I'm Star.
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This episode I'm joined by Grant Nordine.
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Grant is the titular Game Master of Game Master Monday, the podcast that plays a new one shot in a new setting with a new cast every episode.
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He is also the guide for the actual play podcast, Bella's Comet.
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Grant.
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Thank you so much fOrcoming.
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Thank you for having me.
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I'm really excited to be on this show.
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Actually.
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I will be appearing on Grant's podcast, uh, playing a game called Cast Away, but this has already happened by the time that you're listening to this.
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A couple of months ago, uh, Star was on our show.
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It's a while past at this point.
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Please go check that out.
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Uh, it's a really fun podcast.
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Give it a listen.
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And Star's so good on it, just for the record here.
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Like, she wasn't just on the show, she crushes it on that episode.
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So yeah, go check that out.
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It's a really fun episode.
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The other characters are so much fun.
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Yeah, we've got the, the dad energy vet and the puzzle master and the influencer.
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It's very funny.
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Motley crew.
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So fun.
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One of my favorites.
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So is there anything you want to tell listeners about yourself?
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Sure.
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Well, like she mentioned, my name's Grant.
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I've been playing.
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TTRPGs, well I started playing TTRPGs during the pandemic because I got really into a D& D podcast, not one of the big ones, I got into Rude Tales of Magic, and I suddenly learned that D& D was actually very funny and could be ridiculous and goofy and wasn't like a bunch of people pretending to play Lord of the Rings, shame on me.
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Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Not that there's anything wrong with that, but folks, I, I'm a weirdo.
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I'm a, I'm a goofy guy.
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I don't do high fantasy very well.
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But I got really into doing that and then I, I fell in love with TTRPGs as a vehicle for, uh, storytelling and improvisational wOrc and playing a cool game with your cool friends and, and now here I am, uh, on our podcast.
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We play a different one shot every episode.
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So I've ran like.
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30 systems at this point, all in different genres and settings and styles.
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And yeah, you know, whenever I start to like something, I like it really hard.
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I do not know how to pump the brakes.
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It took me a long time to get the hang of d and d and you know, when you're first starting a new hobby and you're not immediately good at it, that can be frustrating Um, eventually I did get the hang of it and I still, you know, I still have positive things to say about the game as a system.
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Maybe not the company who makes it, but the system is fine.
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what, what made me wanna branch out and try other stuff?
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Was I was finding it as I was getting more engrossed in that game and that hobby And I tried to pull people into my vortex I was finding that people probably weren't resonating really hard like a 250 page fucking book That took them a while to build a character in and then they could eventually play and then a lot of playing is wait how do I wait can I wait can't so I kind of started looking for like what are the games I can pick up and play quickly easily and show other people.
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And then I end up finding stuff like Grant Howitt has a lot of great games like Honey Heist and The Witch is Dead and Jason Statham's Big Holiday.
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I haven't heard of that one.
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Listen, if the guy that made Honey Heist has made a whole bunch of other one page one shots and they're all insane, I highly recommend just going through his page one day.
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But, you know, then I started wanting to like, well, what are the other cool systems out there?
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So I just made it my my mission to learn.
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as many systems as I could and then start pulling in people to play those things.
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And thus my podcast was born.
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So we played, you know, big names like D& D and Call of Cthulhu and Pathfinder and Vampire the Masquerade.
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But we also play a lot of indie games like Cast Away, like you and I played.
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We played a game called Lesbian Werewolf Crime Fighters.
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Which I love.
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That was a really fun episode.
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So good.
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Yeah.
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So good.
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Our friend Dusty Hill made that game, you know, stuff like that.
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So I just really have been enjoying diving into the world of like smaller indie RPGs.
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And I feel like that's what the big cool ideas are and the stuff that really resonates with my little weirdo brain.
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I think I would be intimidated to try and run games in that many systems.
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Just being the GM.
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I'm fully down with playing all of them, and I've played so many systems in the last couple years, but how do you approach running all these different games?
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It helps if you have, what one of my therapist ones called, a healthy dose of narcissism, just enough to stay interesting and want to be in control.
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But not enough to be an asshole about it.
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I believe normal people call it self confidence.
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No, I mean, I mean, what it really is, is I, I get very fixated on stuff and I just want to learn as much as I can as fast as I can with as many things as I can.
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So it's just the way my brain wOrcs.
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I love telling stories and whenever I'm like, I'm reading a whole bunch of systems, but they've been sent to me or I find them online.
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And if I read something and like a story clicks in my brain, I'm like, great, cool.
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I want to like, learn how to tell this story in this system.
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And that's where pretty much 90 percent of our episodes come from.
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Sometimes you run modules, but I just approach them one step at a time.
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You pick up the book, you read it.
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And if it resonates with you, cool.
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You run with it and you try it out.
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And in my case, I know a lot of people in the TTRPG space.
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And I'm like, I bet so and so would be good at X.
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So, just for example, when putting Castaway together, I was like, this system rules.
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I love the idea of, like, a TTRPG that's brutal on purpose and is so focused on survival and, like, has you constantly rolling and checking and being aware of, like, your character's physical body.
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And I was like, who would get a real kick out of being so fucking self aware the entire time as a mechanic?
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And I'm like, oh, probably the person whose whole bit is talking about characters and stories and inhabiting their full 100 percent self all the time.
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I'm like, duh, of course Star would be into that.
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I think the mechanics of Cast Away are really interesting.
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I Fully came into that game being like I want to die.
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I want to die so I can haunt all of the other characters This is the only game where there seemed to be a benefit to die Yeah Like a narrative benefit and I was like God I want to do this and then my dice Did not want me to do that.
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My dice were against me Because they did not fail.
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Yeah, listen, this is a months old episode at this point, so I don't mind mild spoilering, but for some reason, Star's character just, like, beast moded that desert island for some reason, just was rolling like gangbusters the whole time, and I was like, well, thank God someone here is gonna definitely live through this.
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I was so good at living on that island, I was like, maybe this is my spot.
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Yeah, I think about your character in particular all the time, I've edited it at this point, it's coming out, at this point, with you and I talking, it's coming out, like, in two weeks, but, like, in the distant past, I'm sure two months from now I'll still be thinking about Star's character, so, like, Listen, I'm plugging my own show and my own interview, but like, listen, that system is a lot of fun, Star is great in it, and I legitimately think about every single person in that cast, a whole bunch, to the point where like, my poison brain is like, that could be a whole campaign, like, we should just do a whole campaign and like, slow down.
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Grant who are you bringing to the table today?
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I was bouncing through a lot of different ideas and because you know I stake my reputation on knowing a lot of systems and yet I came back to a character concept I made very early in my learning how to play TTRPG days and yeah it's a D& D 5e character basic bitch answer I get it especially for who I am but like I really for what this show is I was like I had this character.
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I made them for a campaign.
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The campaign never happened.
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It was the campaign to teach me how to play unconventional D& D.
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I was given the challenge to make a character that doesn't make sense.
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Like, mechanically, and learn how to play that character so that you can GM better.
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And uh, I am giving you my Wizard, Orco, Orco the Magnificent.
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I'm very intrigued by the challenge that was set before you to make a broken character.
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Was that the DM's idea?
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Yeah, that, that was the DM's idea.
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It was kind of like a combination idea.
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So my, my co producer slash younger sister Jenny showed me a lot of the ropes for how to play D& D.
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And when I was starting to develop the concept for Game Master Monday, I was talking to a whole bunch of other DMs that I knew in real life.
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And, uh, one of them was like, you should really just make a character that doesn't wOrc.
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Like the mechanics for them are kind of busted, and you have to find like a narrative way for them to either overcome that, or just roll with it and see what happens.
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And I love that challenge a lot, and you know, one of D& D's many faults is they do these like racial bonus type things.
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So I, I was kicking around the idea, like, it'd be fun to take, like, this particular race of character that isn't known for its intelligence or its magical prowess and make them a wizard, kind of like a, like, like a Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer situation, that elf who wants to be a dentist.
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Uh, this is the orc who wants to be a magician.
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God, I wish I could remember that elf's name.
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I love that guy.
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Oh, now that you're saying, telling me out loud, it's, uh, oh my gosh.
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It'll come back to me in 30 minutes and I'll scream it like out of nowhere and you'll be, what are you talking about, ? I feel like it's got like a Greek God vibe to it.
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Herme, his name is Herme.
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Herme.
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Yes.
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Her herme.
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The The misfit elf.
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This is the direct inspiration for Orco.
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Star: I imagine then that all of similar thing with their characters?
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I'll never know.
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It never happened.
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You never even got to like session zero or anything?
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Nope.
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We never got that far.
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It was a very hectic pitch to a DM and two people I knew who played the game.
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We talked about setting it up.
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I made the character sheet.
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And then I never heard from them again.
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Which, you know, it's how it goes.
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When you are a person who wants to do fun things with your friends in your 30s, you have to contend with the fact that your friends now have things like jobs, and children, and, uh, mental disorders that they only recently found out about.
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So, like, no ill will at all, we think it's funny, and it's probably never gonna happen.
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So that's why I was like, you know what?
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Orco's probably never gonna exist.
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He plays a very bit part in an episode of a Game Master Monday miniseries we did.
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Very early in Game Master Monday, we did a miniseries called Defeating the Dungeon, which is essentially playing Dungeons and Dragons, but the whole party wants to quit adventuring, so they go to rehab.
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It's my savvy commentary on addiction, folks, if you ever want to hear that in a comedy setting.
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But there's a scene where I had an NPC on a bus and I panicked and didn't know who they were or what their name was.
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So Orco appears in that.
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But apart from that, he has not had a story told.
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There's a spectrum of approaches.
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When it comes to building a character and at one end of the spectrum is the min maxer and at the other end of the spectrum, I don't know that there's a name for it.
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Well, I don't know,
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The min minner?
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The min midder
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I've never really came to any character thinking like, Oh man, how can I soup this guy up?
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I've always wanted to build what they were able to do around.
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My idea for them in my head.
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Some people are very much like let the numbers influence the character and I'm kind of like Let the character influence the numbers.
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So when I'm, when I'm making Orco, there's no way around it.
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He's going to have a pretty decent strength score.
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And then by virtue of being a wizard, he should be capable in intelligence.
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And I have to go out of my way to be like, no, he just wants to be one.
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It doesn't mean he's good at it.
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Besides the challenge that was set before you, what else went into the kind of initial spark for this character?
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Why an Orc?
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Why a wizard?
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I've never played a spellcaster, so that was part of it.
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A lot of my, my, my proving ground characters were, like, bards and barbarians and rogues, like, the hang of things, so I wanted to, like, really challenge myself that way.
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Why an orc and why a wizard?
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I'll, I'll be honest, it sounded funny.
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It, it was a funny thing to imagine in my head, it's like imagining a Lord of the Rings ass orc with, like, a little pointy Merlin hat and a cape that's too small, like, like an Aladdin vest, that has, like, four buttons on it, but only one goes across his chest, like, it was a funny visual to me.
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And I just kind of like fish out of water stories.
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I like stories where like someone so very desperately wants something, but maybe they're not super talented at it, but they can get better through like perseverance.
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I'm a very big fan of characters who don't have a handle on how powerful they can be yet, so like their early examples of having power are very like chaotic or uncontrolled, or even just flat out whimpering.
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A lot of my early writing influence, when I was starting to get really into writing scripts, was I've aped a lot of shit from the Powerpuff Girls.
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So, in a weird kind of way, Orco is the weird cross section between Hermy the Elf and that episode of Powerpuff Girls where Bubble suddenly learns she has ice breath.
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And she doesn't know what to do with it.
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I think the shitty wizard trope is fun.
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I like wizards who aren't good at being wizards.
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Yeah, yeah.
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I like wizards whose magic spells aren't helpful.
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I'm a sucker for the character that doesn't know how strong they are and has to discover that through the course of a campaign.
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It's a great arc to put into a game.
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Mm hmm.
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I love that kind of stuff.
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Progression for a character and discovering things about themselves.
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I also love characters who seem predestined to be one thing and are determined to kick against that.
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So what was Orco predestined to be?
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In my head, Orco comes from like a big family or big village just ingrained in Orc society.
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Now, you know, Orcs had a bad rep and I wanted to like, you know, get rid of the whole stigma around Orcs.
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But, you know, I did want it to make it like this is a society where like might makes right.
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Uh, you are a, a powerful society, maybe they have a whole bunch of strength based careers and jobs and duties, and it's like, they have a toxic masculinity in that society, because they're, you know, why not?
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Like, if, if you're going to build a society around that, and it's probably going to seep in there at some point.
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And I just like the idea that Orco fit in.
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in that society.
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He definitely, if he wanted to, he could definitely be a rock mover, or a soldier, or a house builder, or the guy who wheels the big livestock around in a cart.
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And all he has was like from when he was a young kid, he got like a magician's beginner's guide to like elementary tricks and stuff.
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And he knows all this like abjuration magic.
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So he knows like Dancing lights is one of his spells, I think he has, and like, a really remedial form of prestidigitation and stuff like that, and he would try to put on like little magic shows in his hometown, and everyone would get mad at him for not being useful, and be like, why aren't you doing this?
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So just one day, he takes a, you know, D& D equivalent of a bus, and leaves town and wants to go on his own personal adventure so he can learn how to be good at magic.
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And then he goes into the outside world and realizes, oh shit, everyone's kind of mean to orcs.
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So, you know, fish out of water in every pond, if you will.
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He's not a good orc and he's not a good wizard outside of being an orc.
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What was it about magic, about this book, that so entranced him and made him want to leave and really set off on his own path?
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There may be a little bit of my story in this character, a little bit.
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I grew up in a very religious, I shouldn't say household.
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My household was religious, but my parents were pretty chill for the most part.
00:17:27.684 --> 00:17:38.095
But going to church every week and you're kind of a, uh, a flamboyant youth and you like, uh, the theater and expressing your feelings and writing and things like that.
00:17:38.095 --> 00:17:52.298
When a lot of your contemporaries or your leaders in that church are like, They are lawyers, they are doctors, they own businesses, things of that nature, and I am the kid who is skipping church because he has a rehearsal on Sundays, or things like that.
00:17:52.339 --> 00:18:05.829
You know, I think there's a piece of that in Orco getting a book of magic and just like, oh shit, this is something that's different, that I've never seen before, and it kind of appeals to this softer, gentler, entertainer side of me.
00:18:06.079 --> 00:18:07.519
Because that's how I imagine Orco.
00:18:07.539 --> 00:18:12.689
I'm not imagining him as like a fireball wizard or like a battle wizard or things like that.
00:18:12.740 --> 00:18:16.079
My session zero notes was, where should we first meet Orco?
00:18:16.449 --> 00:18:18.919
And it's probably at a children's birthday party.
00:18:19.969 --> 00:18:24.479
Just straight up, like, like strings out of the sleeves, rabbits out of the hats, dancing lights.
00:18:25.000 --> 00:18:32.819
Things to amuse children and make adults roll their eyes was how I envisioned Orco the Magnificent presenting himself in this adventure.
00:18:33.329 --> 00:18:40.819
That is so funny because my last episode was about a character for Quest who was essentially a children's party magician.
00:18:40.819 --> 00:18:42.309
It's a fun trope.
00:18:42.309 --> 00:18:42.950
It is.
00:18:42.950 --> 00:18:44.740
It's a fun role to play.
00:18:44.859 --> 00:18:45.339
Mm hmm.
00:18:45.615 --> 00:18:49.414
Does he like entertaining people and entertaining children?
00:18:49.724 --> 00:18:51.065
I dare say it's his calling.
00:18:51.065 --> 00:18:52.724
I think, I think he loves doing it.
00:18:52.753 --> 00:19:14.224
I can only speak from my own experience, but the way I imagine it going is like, there's just something really invigorating about, like, entertaining so that people will applaud for you and, like, acknowledge that, like, hey, cool, this is a neat distraction from the rest of every horrible thing going on around here in a society where shit like, uh, mind flayers can exist.
00:19:15.569 --> 00:19:17.309
Yeah, I would imagine he super loves it.
00:19:17.309 --> 00:19:22.089
I think if you love something enough to leave your hometown to do it, then you better like it a lot.
00:19:22.279 --> 00:19:22.859
Yeah.
00:19:22.878 --> 00:19:30.450
Well, then what was the transition point from being a children's party magician to going off and becoming an adventurer?
00:19:30.648 --> 00:19:49.744
I would love to know, but in my own head, I would imagine that the prospect of improving his abilities would be really tantalizing because, you know, I think a lot of entertainers especially latch on to the idea of like, who can I study to get better at my craft?
00:19:50.074 --> 00:19:54.234
And if I get better at my craft, what new heights can I ascend to?
00:19:54.454 --> 00:20:08.724
Being a children's party magician is great, but maybe I can ascend the ranks to be more of a, you know, maybe a more, a more bardic magician who entertains, uh, the upper echelons of society and has a seat at that table, maybe as an ability to influence.
00:20:09.084 --> 00:20:11.314
Or heck, maybe he goes on to become a hero.
00:20:11.384 --> 00:20:14.753
I think there's a lot of altruism in the idea behind Orco.
00:20:14.773 --> 00:20:21.064
There's a big bright eyed, bushy tailed, first day in the big city, singing the big opening musical number to Hairspray type situation.
00:20:21.794 --> 00:20:28.054
So, I think it would just be the prospect of improving and getting a better station would be really appealing to him.
00:20:28.224 --> 00:20:33.153
Hmm, yeah, so you would say that's his primary motivation then, is improving his skills?
